Complete: Third day of Elizabeth Smart's testimony

To read part one of Elizabeth Smart's testimony on Nov. 8, click here: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50632966-76/smart-viti-yes-defendant.html.csp

To read part two of Elizabeth Smart's testimony on Nov. 9, click here: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50639245-76/smart-viti-yes-cable.html.csp

To read other testimony transcripts, including Wanda Barzee, click here: http://breaking.sltrib.com/mitchell

Elizabeth Smart continued testifying about her kidnapping for a third day Wednesday.

Brian David Mitchell entered singing "Behold the Great Redeemer Die."

Judge Dale Kimball: We are here in the matter of the United States versus Brian David Mitchell ... if we're prepared to proceed, I will get the jury in. ... [Jury enters] Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Thank you for being here promptly, we appreciate your work. Mr. Mitchell, you have a constitutional right to be here unless you continue to disrupt the proceedings. [Mitchell is ejected.] Ms. Smart, you may resume the stand.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Felice Viti: Ms. Smart I'd like to direct your attention to the "Book of Immanuel David Isaiah" for a moment. Just by way of refresher, who actually wrote the book?

Elizabeth Smart: The defendant.

Viti: Did you ever during your nine months see him write in it?

Smart: It was written before I was kidnapped, but I can't remember for certain but I think he may have added one last section when I was with him.

Viti: Did you see him spend a lot of time often with the book?

Smart: Um, I saw him spend time with the book.

Viti: Did you see him spend a lot of time writing in the book in the nine months you were observing him?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did you read the book?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did the defendant tell you details about the night he took you from your home?

Smart: It was spoken about, um, I don't know what you're ...

Viti: Did the defendant ever describe that evening and how he took you?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: During that description, did he ever tell you he did not use a weapon?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: He told you he did not use a weapon?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did he ever tell you that your parents knew you were all right during your course of the nine months?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did he ever tell you your parents invited him in to take you and be with you?

Smart: He didn't use that exact language, but yes.

Viti: Did the defendant ever tell you why he wasn't wearing any robes when he first met your mom in the fall of 2002?

Smart: Yes, he said that he felt directed by the lord to dress in normal street clothing so that he could find a girl to take.

Viti: Did he ever include in his rationale for wearing street clothes at that time Sept. 11, 2001?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say about that?

Smart: He said there were too many people that became immediately prejudiced

against him in thinking that he was Muslim or a terrorist, and it got to be so much he said he felt directed to stop wearing the robes for a time.

Viti: Ms. Smart, did the defendant during the nine months you described give blessings directed toward you or with you?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What types of blessing were they if you recall?

Smart: It was always if he wanted me to do something, he always wanted me to feel that God had something to tell me.

Viti: When he did say he wanted you to do something, what types of things did he

want you to do?

Smart: To clean up around the camp, to be there sexually for him when he wanted me, to tell me that I was chosen and fore ordained to be his wife before I ever came to Earth and ... um, at the beginning he said that it was OK for me to have a time of mourning but when that time came to an end, I needed to stop crying.

Viti: Any physical aspects of these blessings?

Smart: He would lay his hands on my head.

Viti: Did the words and these actions given to you or Ms. [Wanda] Barzee [Mitchell's wife], did they sound familiar to you? Were you familiar with them?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Prior to June 5, 2002 did you ever experience blessings?

Smart: Yes, but not like that.

Viti: And that was part of your religious beliefs and upbringing within the LDS church?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: When you say "not like that," what was different?

Smart: Well, the blessings I had always received had been blessings of comfort or — they were just comfort and reassurance that I have my choices and I can make the right choice. Compared to the blessings that the defendant tried to give me. He told me what to do. He told me what was expected to me. He never said I had my agency to choose. It was all very dictated.

Viti: Are blessings something that are very important? These types of blessings that you have received prior to June 5, 2002, are they very important in spiritual life for yourself?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Are any blessings you may have received prior to June 5, 2002 ... did they involve cleaning up the house or your room or involve sex?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did you ever ... when the defendant provided these blessings did you ever believe them in any way?

Smart: No.

Viti: When you observed the defendant provide Wanda with blessings, in your observations did you think that Wanda believed them?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Ms. Smart you talk ... I'd like to direct your attention to some things the defendant did during the nine months to avoid detection. Was there anything else besides what you have told us about the defendant, what steps he took to avoid detection?

Smart: He had cut off all relations with his family or past friends that I knew of. I never saw him communicate with anyone.

Viti: Did he ever direct while here in Utah, let's focus your attention to your time in Utah. (Were there) certain routes or paths you would take up and down from the upper camp?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What would he say?

Smart: He said we didn't want to make a beaten path to the camp. So we would take different ways down the mountainside.

Viti: I'd like to focus or direct your attention to some of the conversations he had with you about ever being caught or discovered. Did you in fact have those conversations with him about getting caught?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: And did he talk about the consequences of that?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say?

Smart: He said that he had friends that would come after me and my family if he couldn't. He said that if he were free he would come after me.

Viti: Did he ever speak about what would happen to him if he got caught?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say?

Smart: He said that, well, there were several things he said. But he said he knew he would go to prison for what he had done. But then he also said that I would, myself and the other wives he was going to kidnap. He said we would come and testify in his behalf. And that we would plead on his behalf. And he said that he would be released and he would be killed and lie dead in the street for three days and then he would be resurrected and he would go on to fight the Anti-Christ.

Viti: I'd like to turn your attention to what you observed when he related to other people that you had come into contact with during your nine months. Especially people he may have wanted something from. Can you describe how he would relate to such people?

Smart: He was very ... charismatic and very ... tried to give the feeling of ... or tried to create the attitude of sincerity, and honesty and that he really did need whatever he was asking for.

Viti: And during the times that you observed him engage in such behavior, did you believe that he was being sincere at those times?

Smart: No.

Viti: At any of these times that he engaged with others besides you or Ms. Barzee, did he ever proclaim that he was the Davidic king?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he ever proclaim he was the one mighty and strong?

Smart: No.

Viti: A prophet?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he discuss polygamy with anyone?

Smart: No.

Viti: Would he tell them to repent?

Smart: No.

Viti: Would you ever observe him with other people shutting his eyes, folding his hands and singing religious hymns?

Smart: Not that I can recall.

Viti: Did the defendant ever discuss your family with you?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: In these discussions with your family, did he ever discuss how bad they might be feeling that you might be away from them?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say?

Smart: He said that I was the apple of their eye and that they were heartbroken I wasn't there but that they would be comforted and reassured that I was in good hands.

Viti: In your discussions with him about your family, did he ever seem concerned over their heartbreak?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he ever tell you he felt sorry for them?

Smart: No.

Viti: Could you describe what he was like when he was intoxicated on alcohol?

Smart: Well, I think his behavior was similar to when he was sober, only it was intensified a bit. He was crude and vulgar, self-serving. He was his number one priority, followed by sex, drugs and alcohol but he used religion in all those aspects to justify everything.

Viti: When you, what was he like when he smoked marijuana, was he any different?

Smart: Um, he didn't speak quite as much, but he still spoke, his priorities were still the same.

Viti: When the defendant was alone with you and Ms. Barzee ... let's get into the topic of speaking. Did he speak a lot?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: How much did he talk?

Smart: Nonstop.

Viti: What was the topic of those conversations for the most part?

Smart: Himself.

Viti: Would he talk about religion and his religious role during those conversations?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Was he able to articulate his views and his role when he spoke?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did the defendant mean through your nine months of observations when he used the words ministry?

Smart: Panhandling.

Viti: In the nine months you were with the defendant, did you ever see him help poor people?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he help anyone?

Smart: Other than himself, no.

Viti: Did you see him provide service to others?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did you ever see him give money to anyone?

Smart: Definitely not.

Viti: I ask you to look at government Exhibit 38 once again. Do you recall who sponsored this event?

Smart: The Salvation Army.

Viti: During that meal, did the defendant ever get up from his chair, stop eating and serve anyone at that hall?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he ever comfort anyone in that hall?

Smart: No.

Viti: During that meal, from your observation, what was his primary focus?

Smart: Himself.

Viti: Thank you. Did he tell you how much money he would make panhandling or, as he called it, ministering.

Smart: Yes.

Viti: How much money would he say he made?

Smart: It was usually between 20 and 30 dollars a day.

Viti: Did he tell you ... was he proud of that fact when he told you that he made that money?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did the defendant during your conversations with him ever brag about fooling people?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Besides what you have already told us, do you recall any incidents where he would brag about fooling someone?

Smart: I feel like we've covered all the instances that immediately pop into my head at this moment.

Viti: Let's talk about his use of names, that he used. During the nine months that you were able to observe hte defendant, did he use different names?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did he ever speak about other false names that he had used during your nine months?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did he ever talk about a name David Shirlson?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: How did he come up with that name. Did he tell you?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: How?

Smart: David was his middle name and his father's name was Shirl and he was Shirl's son.

VIti: During the time that you were able to observe the defendant, did you observe him as being a planner, someone who planned things out?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Would you give us some examples?

Smart: The moves. From Utah to California. And then the journey back from California hitchhiking through the different towns back to Utah. In his two other kidnapping attempts I saw him plan things out. The camps. I saw him plan out how the tents should be constructed, where they would go. He planned a lot.

Viti: During your nine months of observing Ms. Barzee, would you say that she very often lost control emotionally.

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did you ever observe the defendant do that?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he ever talk to you about the reasons — withdrawn. Did he ever speak to you about why he was sexually abusing you?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: During these discussions, did he ever mention whether the prophets had young wives?

Smart: He may have, but I don't recall for sure.

Viti: In these discussions he would have with you, how would he justify his conduct with respect to sexual abuse?

Smart: That I was his wife.

Viti: Did he talk about religion during these conversations?

Smart: Yes, that would come in.

Viti: Did he ever speak to you about psychology or hypnosis?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say about those? Start with psychology first.

Smart: Psychology. He said it had interested him and that he had studied it a bit. I don't remember too much else of what he said on the topic. But I remember him being very proud of his knowledge.

Viti: What about hypnosis?

Smart: Hypnosis, I just sort of vaguely remember him saying something about it, don't remember what he said though.

Viti: You mentioned the word knowledge, from your experiences, did the defendant sound like a knowledgeable person or a well-read person?

Smart: Any topic that was ever brought up he had to be the authority on, so yes, he seemed knowledgeable.

Viti: Did he talk to you about some of the books you read?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Do you recall which books?

Smart: I recall him mainly talking about in his book he wrote the "Book of Immanuel David Isaiah." I believe it was seven other books, he would talk about those other books a lot.

Viti: Did the defendant talk about, through your conversations with him, living off other people?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Who did he say he lived off?

Smart: Um, he said they had lived off his mother that they had stayed with his father before they had stayed with Ms. Barzee's mother. Um, he also talked about living off of it was one of his previous employers. I believe his name was Dr. West.

Viti: And when you say "they," who do you mean, when you say they lived with?

Smart: The defendant and his wife.

Viti: Turning your attention to Dr. West, what did he say about Dr. West?

Smart: He said that Dr. West had studied and created or come up with a natural cure-all, the natural way of curing any ailment. And we spoke about that quite a bit, he called it Lymphology, he also said that Dr.West and his wife, it was their sort of, um, motto or way of life that if anyone, everyone asks to stay with them or needs something to eat, they would never turn that person away, never turn people away.

Viti: Did Lymphology, from what the defendant told you, did it include any dietary restrictions or special diet?

Smart: Um, I remember that there was a special diet that he would always talk about but I can't remember exactly if it was from Dr. West, but I believe they were connected.

Viti: Let's talk about the special diet (pronounced He-So-Fo) was he a proponent of the diet?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What was diet he spoke of?

Smart: He said that fruit was the most pure form of food and that was what everybody should be living off of, but that right below fruit, vegetables were very – they were the next sort of level of pure food.

Viti: Where was alcohol in his diet?

Smart: He said that that (alcohol) was poisonous so it wasn't in the diet.

Viti: Did he ever brag about during your discussions with the Wests? Taking advantage of the West's feelings about never turning people away?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say?

Smart: There came a time when he knew that the Wests wanted himself and his wife to leave but they couldn't because they had used this as their way of living their life motto. He knew that he wouldn't' get turned away so he continued to live with him.

Viti: Did he tell you why the Wests wanted him out?

Smart: Um, yes. He gave several reasons at the time.

Viti: What were they?

Smart: They included they had changed their names. They were building a sort of a handcart or hand wagon or some type of hand-pulled vehicle while they were there. And they were just living off the Wests and taking advantage of them without helping them or trying to pay them or trying to lighten the Wests' burden of always talking care of the defendant and his wife. I believe ... he also said that their relationship had changed. It had become ... it wasn't friendly. I ... there was ... the feelings had turned bad. They weren't good feelings anymore between them.

Viti: Getting back to lymphology. What did he tell you, the defendant, the practice of it, of lymphology, involved?

Smart: He said that lymphology was ... everything was connected to touching or it was all a physical ... a physical method. He said that it included rubbing someone's arm if they hurt their arm or like it included a lot of moving. Like bouncing up and down. He said it included the changing of temperature, he said. The words he used was hot expansion, cold contraction. He said deep breathing was essential in it. That's mostly what I can remember.

Viti: Did you ever observe the defendant bouncing up and down?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: How often would he do this?

Smart: Quite frequently.

Viti: When would he do it?

Smart: It was never a set time. It was just whenever he felt like it. It was ... if not several times a day, it was close to daily.

Viti: You testified yesterday or the day before, I don't really recall, that the defendant spoke to you about his journeys. His and Wanda's journeys throughout the United States. How did he journey through the United States?

Smart: He spoke about several different ways. He had spoken about flying on an airplane. He spoke about a time when they had a fifth wheel trailer and a truck that they journeyed within the United States. He spoke about bus travel and hitchhiking.

Viti: During the time that you hitchhiked from California to Utah, did you ever have to force the defendant into a car?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did he ever seem frightened or afraid of vehicles?

Smart: No.

Viti: During the time he talked about hitchhiking across the United States, did he ever tell you how frightened he was of cars?

Smart: No. I remember him talking about cars and I asked him what his favorite type of car was and he said if he had a choice he would choose some type of sports car.

Viti: During the nine months that you were able to observe the defendant, did he talk about his political views?

Smart: That the government was wicked, very wicked.

Viti: Did he talk about taxes?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say?

Smart: He said that in the beginning of this country's foundation that there weren't taxes. There weren't lots of taxes. He said that there was a voluntary tax that was, I think he said, it was one or two percent. Now that the government is so corrupt and it was being financed by these big international world banks and the banks controlled the government because the government owed them so much money.

Viti: Did he ever talk to you about his avoiding financial representatives or any debts he might have incurred?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he tell you?

Smart: He spoke about when he had owed money on their RV trailer thing. Um, he said how they just had stopped paying, making payments on it and how one day they just left it on, um, somebody's property. (They ) just completely abandoned it without ever paying anything on it.

Viti: What about other financial responsibilities?

Smart: Um.

Viti: Did he ever talk about child support?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say about that?

Smart: I don't remember details, but I recall him saying that he did not pay child support.

Viti: Did he talk to you about how he avoided consequences of his conduct?

Smart: That he had, um, taken the children and just disappeared.

Viti: Did he ever talk to you about excommunication?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say about that?

Smart: He said that the LDS church had called him into a disciplinary council or hearing and that they had excommunicated him, but on the day that he was to be there to receive the excommunication that he hadn't gone. And that how could they excommunicate them if he wasn't there? He just seemed so pleased with himself that he had outwitted being excommunicated.

Viti: When he was alone with yourself and Wanda, he would espouse particular religious views as you testified?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Did they include being a prophet?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: The one mighty and strong?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: The Davidic King?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: The (one) who was going to fight the Anti-Christ?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: In your time that you had to observe him and his encounters with any other individuals, did he ever proclaim these beliefs or this faith in a situation that would lead to his detection?

Smart: No.

Viti: Did you ever experience putting him putting this faith that he espoused before his own well-being?

Smart: No.

Viti: Was there ever a time during the nine months that he ever talked to you about what you were feeling with respect to sexual abuse?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: What did he say?

Smart: He said that I would become accustomed and learn to love it.

Viti: Did he use particular words to you to describe your feelings?

Smart: Um, could you restate the question?

Viti: Did he ever discuss or tell you that he knew you felt like a prostitute?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Could you explain that?

Smart: Um, yes. Um, he said that he understood and realized that I felt like a prostitute or concubine or second-class wife, but that wasn't the case at all.

Viti: During the nine months that you described, did he ever display any concern for you in any way?

Smart: Other than concern for us not being detected and me following what he said and um getting his own way, no.

Viti: In the nine months that you saw him interact with other people, did you ever hear another person say he needed any medical intervention?

Smart: Not that I can recall. I think there may have been a time that a lady yelled at him, at all three of us that we all needed to get help, but I don't remember anything other than that.

Viti: During your nine months of observations of the defendant did you have an opinion as to whether he was hypocritical?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: And what was your opinion?

Smart: That he was very hypocritical.

Viti: What do you base that on?

Smart: Well nine months of living with him and seeing him proclaim that he was God's servant and he had been called to do God's work and everything that he did to me and to my family is something I know God would never tell someone to do. God would never tell someone to kidnap a young girl from her family's home in the middle of the night from her bed that she shared with her sister, from her sister's side and give her no free agency and continue to rape her and sexually abuse her and give her no free agency to choose what she did. I know that God loves each of his children and that we have our free agency and that's why we are here. It is for us to choose what we do in our lives, and I never had that free agency in those nine months I was with him. I know he was not called of God because God would never do something like that.

Viti: When he discussed religion — withdrawn. When he spoke to you and Ms. Barzee, would he use an archaic form of English?

Smart: There came a time when a form of archaic English was used.

Viti: Did you ever hear him use that language with anyone else during your nine months? With anyone else but you and Ms. Barzee?

Smart: No.

Viti: During the nine months you were with him, Ms. Smart, and he had held you and you observed him and you were able to ... and he spoke to you. What was his primary preoccupation? What was his primary concern?

Smart: Getting what he wanted.

Viti: And what did that include?

Smart: Sex and alcohol.

Viti: Ms. Smart, was there ever a time that you sent a message of help?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Could you describe that?

Smart: Yes. It was on one of the excursions into Salt Lake City. I said I had to go to the bathroom. So Ms. Barzee took me into the bathroom at the Hard Rock Cafe, where I tried to scratch help into the bathroom stall.

Viti: Did you do that?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: No further questions.

Judge Kimball: Thank you, Mr. Viti. Mr. Steele, you may cross examine.

Defense attorney Robert Steele: When he talked to you about your parents invited him in, you told Mr. Viti that that wasn't the exact language. Do you remember his exact language?

Smart: I couldn't repeat it word for word for you.

Steele: Was it substantially ... was it different from what Mr. Viti had said?

Smart: It was different, but it wasn't a lot different.

Steele: Oh. OK. ... When you were talking to Mr. Viti about him never proclaiming to anyone else his situation, the thing he thought, the thing he said he was, the person, did he ever talk about "these people aren't ready, not yet ready to receive my testimony."

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Wasn't there one time that he did get in a loud religious argument when you were with him and perhaps yell "repent." At that party?

Smart: Yes. Thank you for refreshing my memory. I do believe he did that.

Steele: But that was the one time you heard him get in such an argument?

Smart: The only one that I can recall.

Steele: Did he tell you ... he told you he used the name David Shirlson and Wanda used some version of Shirlson also?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Did they tell you when they were using those names?

Smart: It was before I was ever with them. He did tell me, I believe he said it was while they were traveling around the countryside. Around the country. But it's a little foggy. It's been a long time.

Steele: I understand. You actually have a very good memory. ... Wanda, you told Mr. Viti, Wanda would lose control emotionally. But he never did, except perhaps at the party. Did you ever see him lose consciousness?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Could you describe that?

Smart: Yes. We were in California at the time. He was in the middle of raping me and he experienced a seizure.

Steele: That was the only time you saw anything like that?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: It sounds like he talked about a lot of his life with you. Both good things and bad things.

Smart: Yes.

Steele: What did he think about the LDS Church?

Smart: He said that the LDS Church was the true church but they were also the most wicked church because they had the most truth and knowledge and that they went against it. And from the time of the death of President [Ezra Taft] Benson that it had led astray, but that it still was God's church.

Steele: You said he said he had a special position in restoring the church.

Smart: I don't know if I would use the word "restoring," but in guiding them back to ... guiding them back to the correct path.

Steele: When he was excommunicated, or when he was talking to you about being excommunicated, didn't he tell you he had excommunicated the church? Or he had severed the tie?

Smart: I believe he did say he severed the tie, but I do not recall him saying that he had excommunicated the church.

Steele: The seven books, he called those the seven diamonds plus one. It's been a while. Do you remember what those seven books were?

Smart: The Bible. The Book of Mormon. The Doctrine and Covenants. "The Final Quest" by Rick Joyner. "The Literary Meaning of Isaiah" by I believe the last name is Geriotti, Abram Geriotti. "Touched by the Light" by Betty Eadie ["Embraced by the Light"], I think that's her name. And I think there was a book called "The Golden Seven." It was a health book. That I don't remember who it was by. And then the plus one was the book that he had written, "The book of Immanuel David Isaiah."

Steele: In talking about lymphology and Dr. West, didn't he become a salesman? A telephone solicitor kind of person for Dr. West?

Smart: He never said telephone solicitor. But he did say he was a salesman for Dr. West.

Steele: Did he say he was the best salesman?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Did he say Dr. West was going to turn the business over to him?

Smart: I don't recall him ever saying anything to that effect. But I remember him saying that Dr. West, he had been told that he wouldn't die until he saw this method of natural health go into the world. Until people ... until more people knew about it.

Steele: You talked about much earlier in your testimony when mentioning lymphology, you said there was a pharmaceutical company conspiracy. I took that to mean that the companies didn't want to lose money to this non-pharmaceutical form of healing, they didn't want them to not take their drugs to heal, it that a fair statement?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Did he ever talk about doctors the same way, trying to suppress lymphology?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: You testified once earlier that he was a restless sleeper, part of one of the reasons you were not able...

Smart: I actually have you to thank for that. I had forgotten last November during the competency hearing, I replied I couldn't remember, it had been years, but after you asked that question, thought about it more once I was off of the stand. I did remember he got up quite a few times in the night to go to the bathroom or deep breathe or bounce or any one of those healing methods.

Steele: When he bounced, when you were aware of him bouncing during the day let's say, how long would that go on?

Smart: Not very long. Um, a short period of time, a minute, maybe a couple, four minutes at most, maybe less.

Steele: Where there times he'd grab a tree branch overhead and hold himself while bouncing on one leg?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Your honor, if I might have just a moment, most of what I prepared last night has been testified to.

Judge: Go ahead.

Steele: One of the, when you talked about your cousin Olivia, she was the next wife in his mind. When he went out to get her on July 23rd, is that a fair statement of what he said?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: When he came back and talked about July 24 he said a couple of things. Isn't one of them that he knew there would be a really big reaction because it was a holiday and that's what you wanted.

Smart: I could be wrong, but um, I feel like, I feel like I remember that he said that because it was a holiday that he, um, it would. Yes, like a kidnapping would be a big deal but it would be not as quick to respond or I could be wrong, I just don't remember.

Steele: That was one of the things you testified to. A couple days after he was arrested and you were free, you had a lengthy interview with Dr. Deets. You remember that? It went several days, is that true?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: If you said something to Dr. Deets immediately afterward about something he said, it's probably accurate, is that a fair thing to say? And if you told Dr. Deets, you said he was hoping for a big reaction because of the holiday, that's likely to be one of the things he told you?

Smart: Absolutely.

Steele: It's been a long time, that makes sense. The other kidnapping attempt at the Kemp's house, is that when he came back and said we're not prepared to receive another wife, is that what you testified to yesterday?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Did he ever say anything like "I have to do everything I can but if the Lord doesn't open a way then it's not something I need to do."

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Then the purpose is that it must have been a test of my faith.

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Did he seem relieved after either of the two attempts?

Smart: I believe there was an element of relief, but i also believe there was an element of, um, there wasn't an element of discouragement.

Steele: The story about his arrest and the break in, you testified yesterday. I believe that you had a vague memory but couldn't quite recall how he had become separated from his clothing, he didn't have his robes on when he was arrested do you remember saying that?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: When say have a vague recollection is it that it's been too long, you don't remember it?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Him trying to get into a church, opening a window, throwing clothing

in, accidentally closing a window, and threw a brick in another window, does that ring a bell?

Smart: It sounds familiar, but i couldn't promise you that that's what I remember telling you.

Steele: You don't need to make me any promise . . . You spent some time during the day singing, generally. Is that a fair thing to say?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: And what did he have you sing?

Smart: He had had his wife, Ms. Barzee, compile a book of hymns from different religions. The majority, however, were taken from the LDS hymn book. He would just have us sing or whatever he wanted.

Steele: You testified that on that first night he prayed for a lengthy period of time. Did that happen other times? Did he pray for a lengthy period of time?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Were these, what he said, was it familiar to you or perhaps like the blessings, familiar but different?

Smart: I would say a little bit of both.

Steele: How was it different, if you have any specific memory of it?

Smart: I had never prayed for 45 minutes before in my life. That was different. The things that he would say in his prayers were things that I would have never ... never have said in my prayers

Steele: Just an example or two.

Smart: I remember him in his prayer saying, 'Hallowed by thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.' I wouldn't put it like that. I would not say ... I would not include that in my prayers. I wouldn't say it like that. ... Other things that he would pray about, um, he would, when he would pray, it wasn't ... it was more like he was telling me or telling ... Wanda what we should do. Like, he would say, please bless me that I would be able to cope with my wifely duties and that I would be able to rise to the occasion and fulfill those wifely duties. That is about the farthest thing from my prayers

Steele: Oddly praying, not that he fulfilled something but that those around him, you fulfilling something for him?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: That's a pretty odd prayer.

Smart: Yes.

Steele: When there were, when you were preparing to return to Salt Lake from San Diego, were there a number of destinations that were talked about or was Salt Lake always the one that he intended after you had talked to him?

Smart: If I understand you correctly ...

Steele: That was complicated. Maybe I should back up. Did you spend time in a library in the San Diego area looking at maps much like you did here?

Smart: I don't remember that happening. It could have but it wasn't to think about going to somewhere else. Salt Lake was always the final destination after I said that. He ... as I said earlier in my testimony, he didn't just stand on the side of the road with a sign that said salt lake, there were smaller destinations between California and Utah.

Steele: After you had the conversation with him about ... you thought you had had direction from God but you weren't sure and you wanted him to pray on it. He was with your idea about coming back to Salt Lake? That was it for him?

Smart: Once he felt like he had received confirmation that that was where we needed to go, yes.

Steele: He really trusted you at that point? It didn't seem like he took your advice or anything you said to heart before that time?

Smart: No. He did not.

Steele: Did his returning here, was that caught up in his mind at all with martyrdom, did he think he was going to get caught?

Smart: 10-15 years down the road the thought he would.

Steele: So not at this time?

Smart: No.

Steele: On that first night he's taking you up the canyon, and you said you talked about a conversation he had that he realized what he was doing, he understood the consequences.

Smart: Yes.

Steele: Were those the words he used, or was that the truth of what he was saying? That was poorly said. Once again, wasn't his response more like, "Yes I know this is dangerous" in his response to you that "You were going to get caught and put in prison." Did he say, "I know this is dangerous, but the lord is with me"?

Smart: He did say that at a point in time. I also recalled him saying he understood what would happen if he gets caught.

Steele: He was very clear this was against the law?

Smart: Yes, he was very clear.

Steele: That first night in your bedroom, you describe feeling something. It

was the knife, cold, sharp, him saying "Don't make a sound. Come with me," it's a clear, clear threat to harm you if you don't?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: And it doesn't necessarily matter what he says next, it's a threat to kill you?

Smart: I have no other idea how to interpret it with a knife at my neck.

Steele: Is it possible that time, not the other times, that he said I don't want to have to hurt you and your family. Still a threat to kill you, but were those were his words?

Smart: It was possible.

Steele: You heard him say that he would kill you other times?

Smart: Yes.

Steele: That's all I have, your honor.

Judge Kimball: Mr. Viti, redirect.

Viti: One time you recall the defendant getting into a fight about religion and him yelling to repent. That was at the party.

Smart: Yes.

Viti: That was at the party that had the party and the absinthe, correct?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: Was that argument before or after the defendant drank that Solo cup of absinthe?

Smart: It was, he had drank quite a bit of it if not all of it by that point. He may have still had a small amount left in the cup.

Viti: And he had drank other alcohol before he drank absinthe at that party?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: And was he drinking earlier in the day?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: And he told you the absinthe was a hallucinogen?

Smart: Yes.

Viti: When you were discussing coming back to Salt Lake City and you had suggested coming back to Salt Lake City, before he had decided, or before he told you that you were going to come back to Salt Lake City, had you also suggested the LDS girls camps where he could kidnap other young girls?

Smart: Yes.

Judge Kimball: Any recross, Mr. Steele?

Steele: No.

Judge Kimball: You may step down, Ms. Smart. Thank you.